are relationships possible with a narcissist

[srm114]

I don't think a relationship is possible with a narcissist. I think you can be involved with one, interact with one, but since there's no real reciprocation or holding up his/her end, it isn't a real relationship.
I've been interacting with a narcissist, for the past year and a half. I've fooled myself multiple times that a relationship exists, but every time we start out, he ends it by completely destroying the "relationship". Breaking up, clearing out all my stuff from his house, etc. All the attendant breakup emotional crap and then suddenly, 4 days later, he's back as if nothing happened.
Of course, I have gone back every time because I have deep-seated issues of my own. I was "raised" by a narcissist and that's all I know. I realize now that the father and the other cannot relate normally.
I'm still seeing him on occasion because his false self is very pleasant to be with. But I don't expect his push-pull cycle to change at all. I just bolt the situation when he starts the push cycle until it's over.
Look, I know this isn't "healthy". But I have relationship problems of my own to work out because I'm a narcissist's child and I'm afraid of trying a "healthy" relationship right now until I work them out. I don't think he's stopping me; that remains to be seen. I know him too well and I know what to expect.

[dawnger]

I'm going through a divorce from someone who I believe is a narcissist, but my attorney is trying to tell me that he is not one. From everything I read about narcissists, he has all the signs. I'm trying to figure out how I ended up with someone like this. My court battle is in upwards of $65,000 and we've had one psych evaluation done; however, my attorney told me NOT to drop the term "narcissist" to the psychologists. The report came back with many characteristics of a narcissist, but no label. Well, because it evaluation came back in my favor for custody of my 3-year old daughter, he has the option to get another evaluation done and guess who is doing it? Marc Ackerman, Mr. 50/50 himself. So, life is just grand and I'm just trying to get by with everything.

So, in my opinion, if he is in fact a narcissist, no I don't believe that relationships are possible.

[uslaura]

srm114 said:

I don't think a relationship is possible with a narcissist. I think you can be involved with one, interact with one, but since there's no real reciprocation or holding up his/her end, it isn't a real relationship.
I've been interacting with a narcissist, for the past year and a half. I've fooled myself multiple times that a relationship exists, but every time we start out, he ends it by completely destroying the "relationship". Breaking up, clearing out all my stuff from his house, etc. All the attendant breakup emotional crap and then suddenly, 4 days later, he's back as if nothing happened.
Of course, I have gone back every time because I have deep-seated issues of my own. I was "raised" by a narcissist and that's all I know. I realize now that the father and the other cannot relate normally.
I'm still seeing him on occasion because his false self is very pleasant to be with. But I don't expect his push-pull cycle to change at all. I just bolt the situation when he starts the push cycle until it's over.
Look, I know this isn't "healthy". But I have relationship problems of my own to work out because I'm a narcissist's child and I'm afraid of trying a "healthy" relationship right now until I work them out. I don't think he's stopping me; that remains to be seen. I know him too well and I know what to expect.

[uslaura]

Relationships are possible with some narcissists, it's just that they are not truly fulfilling, and are dependent upon the giving of narcissitic supply. Narcissists have a tremendous need to be built up, and when that doesn't happen in the way they want, the other person in the relationship is devalued. This begins a chain of passive-aggressive behaviors that can leave the other person confused, as well as feeling guilty of something they really shouldn't feel guilty about. This is not the way a "relationship" should be.
This was my experience, anyway, during my 27 year relationship with someone I found out later is a narcissist. Funny how we don't see things until we are out of the woods and can look back!

[sharonbuxton]

If you are not emotionally involved with a Narcissist a healthy relationship is possible if you play the game. That would be someone like a boss which you have a vested interest in maintaining. The information on dealing with such an employment situation is in Sandy Hotchkiss' Why Is It All About You? Any attempt to endure a relationship with a Narcissist becomes self abuse once you are aware of it. I am re-reading Sam Vaknin's Malignant Self Love and am picking up more than on the first run. I was in such a shocked state of mind finding the significant people in my life described to a tee that I missed details. But any book so full of information takes several reads to "believe" what is obviously truth.

[movedon]

I was married to a narcissist for 14 years. Once we had our daughter, he gradually removed his sheep's clothing and let the wolf emerge. It was a slow, ongoing process, but I finally realized the man I dated and married was gone forever and in his place was a very successful, intelligent man who was prone to bouts of rages over nothing, could not handle personal confrontation or disagreement, showed no interest in anything that didn't involve him & his accomplishments, his work, his triathlons, his interests, etc., that was passive-aggressive, that gave me the silent treatment when I disagreed with him, distorted the truth, was threatened by my independence (I was 10 years older than he, and had my own hobbies & friends), thought he knew more than everybody, admitted that he couldn't "put himself in someone else's shoes" when I would try to get him to understand my feelings or our daughters feelings (total lack of empathy), perceived threats where there were none, and treated me accordingly. (This led to great confusion, since he never verbalized the threat. That would be confrontation. It was as if he had a negative conversation in his mind w/me and then acted as if it really happened. Naturally, I was clueless, and confused. Yet, there were times that I look back, and realize I had good reason to be confused, as I was always trying to make sense out of nonsense. The other thing that bothered me was that he never shed a tear in all the years I knew him. Instead, he reacted negatively to my tears and would get upset with our daughter when she cried, telling her she was a "wuss". His attitude of superiority, combined with the negative, smug aura that permeated the house when he was there made me realize that I was happier when he was gone. What was more confusing to me, however, was there were also times when he was extremely "up" for no particular reason. That kept me hanging in there, and thinking that I should be grateful for a man that was a good provider, home every night, didn't drink, and basically a man that most woman would be happy to be married to. Eventually, I decided that being ignored, bored, confused and walking on eggshells, was no way to live no matter what. Furthermore, his unpredictable rages, threats to kill our 3 mo. old puppies if they had another accident, and his general insensitivity toward us, was something my 12 year old daughter should not have to experience any longer. The day I filed for divorce, I also filed for an Order of Protection, as prior to filing, he told her he wanted to put a bullet through my head. Oddly enough, until the divorce began, I never realized what a liar he was. Since then I have come to realize that the man not only lied to himself about me throughout our marriage, (thus sabotaging it), but is able to lie easier than tell the truth. Unfortunately, as evidenced in Court, his ability to convincingly lie is better than most peoples ability to tell the truth. There were times in our marriage that I really questioned my own sanity as I would say things to him during a confrontation and he would repeat the words back that I had just said, totally twisted. It was crazy making. He would accuse me of saying things to his face that I simply did not say. But...it WAS what he heard. Everything in the mind of a true narcissist is distorted to make them the victim. I was his 3rd wife by the time he turned 33, and he always ended up lining up his back up Narcissistic Supply before the end of each marriage. It amazes me how they can continue to present the same picture of being the "perfect man" to their new prey time after time, and deluding themselves into believing that things will turn out differently w/o recognizing that they are the problem. They continue to make their new source of supply the object of their attention, and then eventually, when these woman begin having minds of their own, he devalues them with his distorted thinking. Since our divorce, he has now turned his craziness, mean-spiritedness, mind games and lies toward our daughter, but fortunately, through learning about narcissism, she is able to see through it. Instead of having a toxic relationship with him, she has decided to not be involved. Of course, he blames her (and me) for their estrangement, although she clearly has confronted him with his lies to her and his insensitive behavior toward her. He denies, denies, denies. Naturally, because of that Narcissistic Injury, she has now become a threat to him, so he doesn't fight the estrangement. The older she gets (presently 14), the more she understands narcissism and what to watch out for in future relationships. It is so sad that she had to become acquainted with this adult problem in her childhood and it is twice as sad that her first heartbreak came from her own Father. Still...he now, and always will...remain clueless!

[Carolyn]

There was a study done on macaque monkeys, I beleive, at the University of Missisippi Medical School. This study indicated that some personality disorders are genetic and that there is a lack of cellular development in part of the anterior lobe of the brain making the narcissist, borderline, etc unable to interact socially in a fulfilling or successful way. It could be compared to DownsSyndrome only in the case of personality disorders they have intellectual capacity but very low emotional intelligence.

[Ella Scott]

I believe that narcissists can have relationships with people that are similar to them (narcissists themselves). If a somatic narcissist is in a relationship with another somatic narcissist, I believe they can have a productive relationship helping each other get noticed for their good looks. They can compliment one another and mirror each other. I think some hollywood couples may be together for this very reason. Since neither one of the pair is capable of love or intimacy, they never request it of the other. There are no demands for intimacy, just ego-stroking. Two narcissists can certainly have a field day together.

Outside of this, I don't believe having a meaningful relationship with a narcissist is possible. They are actors...everything they say or do is an act. They can tell you they love you a million different ways, but they're just saying it to ensure they can maintain control of you. They're not capable of love. They're capable of taking everything they can get from you. By pretending to love us, we give them easy access to take from us. We must remember the only reason a narcissist enters and stays in a relationship is to take and have someone available at all times to stroke his ego when the outside world fails to do so.

[massagelady1]

I dont know , I suppose that it is possible, at least for a while. I think that it might be possible to even beat them at their own game. Also I would wonder about the degree of narcissism. I along with many others find the narcissist to have a very charming false personality which if not taken to extreme can make for an entertaining friendship or superficial love affair . The problem is falling in love and trying to maintain stability in this relationship by expecting him to react to love in a genuine way. My ex boyfriend , while not a dangerous man in the physical sense was truly a narcissist who could be a wonderful short term encounter , However we cant turn a cobra into a lovebird . therefore we can only appreciate the cobra for what he is . a beautiful , hypnotic. coldblooded creature , whose vanity allows himself to be charmed by those that he wishes to make his prey . A dangerous alligence indeed.If we can enjoy a short term dalliance without becoming to deeply involved I suppose that we can say a relationship is possible, if indeed this is a relationship at all . What continues to amaze me is the very long term investments we have made with them . So while it is certainly best to recognize and avoid the narcissist in terms of expecting a mutual lovebird existance . I belive that a non commited , social encounter could be temporarilly satisfying .My former boyfriend is a psuedo mans, man and is envied by many neighborhood guys who try to copy his cool, and have done it for years, supplying him beautifully, These are his short cuts to friendship which seem to have had few effects on his friends.The relationships which are casual with women are also the same, everyone however knows how much stroking he needs and dont seem to mind it shortterm. Only those who truly have loved him suffer.

[carol]

HI, I'M A NEW NEW MEMBER AND YOUR STORIES ARE HELPING ME SO MUCH
THANK-YOU CAROL

[Beth]

Hi,
I could relate so much to your message, its scary. I have been involved with a man for 3 1/2 years, and recently with the help of a good therapist, I am realizing he is narcissistic and our relationship is hopeless. We are legally married, but he has asked me to hide it (lie!) for 3 years. I did not want to have a child with him for fear of how he would treat the child, considering the way he treats me.

You mentioned......"The other thing that bothered me was that he never shed a tear in all the years I knew him. Instead, he reacted negatively to my tears........"

I have experienced this also... I wonder, with all the fights and break ups, etc.. weve had, how the guy could never ever cry about anything. And hates it when I cry. Hates it.

RE: ...." His attitude of superiority, combined with the negative, smug aura that permeated the house when he was there made me realize that I was happier when he was gone. What was more confusing to me, however, was there were also times when he was extremely "up" for no particular reason. That kept me hanging in there...."

I experience this too.
how did you finally call it quits? I am still struggling to end my relationship....I keep hoping he will change, he will finally get it, etc.....( a brick will fall on his head and he will snap out of it..)

When I said I wanted a divorce, he threatened to kill himself.
He begged.
I am wife #2, and he is 38, and he already met someone during one of our breakups, told her he loved her, and then kept lying to me about it.
It seems he will never recognize he has a problem.

Why do I STILL hope he wakes up one day a different man???

!!!
thanks for your posting

[beth]

Beth said:

Hi,
I could relate so much to your message (MOVEON), its scary. I have been involved with a man for 3 1/2 years, and recently with the help of a good therapist, I am realizing he is narcissistic and our relationship is hopeless. We are legally married, but he has asked me to hide it (lie!) for 3 years. I did not want to have a child with him for fear of how he would treat the child, considering the way he treats me.

You mentioned......"The other thing that bothered me was that he never shed a tear in all the years I knew him. Instead, he reacted negatively to my tears........"

I have experienced this also... I wonder, with all the fights and break ups, etc.. weve had, how the guy could never ever cry about anything. And hates it when I cry. Hates it.

RE: ...." His attitude of superiority, combined with the negative, smug aura that permeated the house when he was there made me realize that I was happier when he was gone. What was more confusing to me, however, was there were also times when he was extremely "up" for no particular reason. That kept me hanging in there...."

I experience this too.
how did you finally call it quits? I am still struggling to end my relationship....I keep hoping he will change, he will finally get it, etc.....( a brick will fall on his head and he will snap out of it..)

When I said I wanted a divorce, he threatened to kill himself.
He begged.
I am wife #2, and he is 38, and he already met someone during one of our breakups, told her he loved her, and then kept lying to me about it.
It seems he will never recognize he has a problem.

Why do I STILL hope he wakes up one day a different man???

!!!
thanks for your posting

[beth]

Hi Ella,
Thank you for this message board and your postings.
Would you be able to describe some early warning signs to help stay OUT of a relationship with a narcissist?
I think I noticed some things in my own relationship after 4 months, however ignored them and now, 3 1/2 years later,
things have only gotten worse.
My fear is I get out of this one, and jump back into another. I am in therapy, so working on my own issues, but those red flags must be there and there must be ways to pay attention.

thank you so much for all you are doing
Beth

[genie]

Hi Everyone, Yes it is so much easier to "see" when you are out of the relationship. I spent 29 years in one and looking back ALL the signs were there. My N also hated tears. He loved me when I was strong and competant but when I had a hard time or was sick or hurt he turned into a monster. I just couldn't figure it out and was so emerced in our life and family that I stayed.
He did the "silent" teatment not speaking for days,weeks and months. After the kids had grown it escalated to an unbelievable degree.
The first wake-up call I really got was when he declared I was "useless butt-wipe" Something went off in my head and I kept thinking he would calm down and take it back....but once he knew how much it hurt it became his mantra to me. Only after leaving did I find Sam Vaknin's site and read about NPD and how they USE people...so since I wasn't playing the game I was USELESS BUTTWIPE to him.
All the stories about how convincing they are,charming,manipulative ect....well I lived it all.
It has taken me tremendous effort to break free and love myself.
As hard as it was to leave 29 years of life behind,endure a difficult divorce procedure,accept that I dedicated my life to a man with NPD,I am grateful everyday that I figured it out. I could still be there waiting for him to act like a descent human being but now I understand that is not possible.
I am so thankful for the internet and this knowledge without which I could see myself suffering regret and confusion for the rest of my life. Most women who live with these men are willing to believe they actually deserve to be treated like that.
Now that I am an "expert" on this subject I see it all. My husband 's father was an N. When I joined the family one of the first things I'd learn was that his father NEVER once had apoligized to anyone....my husband was the same. No matter what he did he always justified it and would never say he was sorry. I always figured he was sorry but couldn't say it.......so anyone who isn't sure should read the signs,wake-up and get out and move on with there life and please,please don't have children with someone you think might be an N. All three of my grown sons have "issues" deep issuses that I know are all a part of this life they lived. I can be glad they have me and that is why I am determined to survive and be happy,healthy and sane for them. They will have to figure out their dad on their own. The sad part is how N's USE other people's compassion and mercy.....they are VAMPIRES.......and as stated in another post it is pretty useless to try to get other people to understand...it's almost impossible for a descent person to phathom something so sinister.....best wishes to everyone...genie

[massagelady1]

Dear ladies,
When I read these posts I noticed a couple more similarities with all of our narcissists .Particularly the empathy thing. When the going gets tough the narsicist goes.When we were getting together for what was to be a permanent relationship ,his plan was that We would live in my cheap little cottage , and we would both rent out our condos , work real hard and save for our old age, Sounded right , I went thru the expense of moving and rented out my condo. Hurricane Wilma took a huge part of my condo which made me lose my tenent . it wasnt fixed for a year , suddenly when the financial prospect looked dim the idea which was his in the first place became my problem , the us and we were gone , he became a border instead of a partner and even scolded me for overreacting . He lived in my house ,rented out his place and quit working ,driving me to financial hardships such as I have never known. Once he learned that being a landlord required more of him than reclineing back swilling vodka, and watching Turner classic Movies while waiting for the rent checks,he became abusive to his poor tenents. He learned that he could move them in and kick them out without returning their security deposits.I also have a gripe with know it all amature psychologists who tell us that "it was your choice to let him treat you this way , and "you must have liked it or you wouldnt have taken it" . Noobody knows how lethal and quickly one is bitten by these vampires, and how long it takes till we realise that we are now among the living dead .I am dedicating my life to renewing family relations and friendships with the wonderful people who waited 6 years for my ressurection.All my love and respect goes to you kindhearted and tolerent people who have suffered so long. In many ways we are lucky that they are such poor moneymakers and contributers. JM the doctors wife only suffered because of her sacrifices and her husbands ill gotten gains . Only the good doctor benifitted and used his wealth and power to make those around him miserable My underachieving Narcissists lousy hundred a week rent wasnt missed when I kicked him out, which forced him to get a real job or lose his place which he had mortaged to the hilt.Love to all of you and your precious familys Candice